Any car wrenchers here ?

bikesnbones · Post by **bikesnbones** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:08 am

Apologies if this shouldn't be here but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it, and I thought there may be some knowledgable car folk here,
I have a W reg Rover 45 1.4. with 46,000 miles
The engines in these cars (K series), were known to have a head gasket weakness, and I think mine has fallen victim.
Only I'm not 100% sure.
The coolant level has started to drop, and I reckon I've topped up with nearly a litre over the last 300 miles and there is a "snotty" (for want of a better word), white residue forming on the edges of the expansion tank,.
I'm told these are signs of HGF, as well as;

1) White milky residue in the oil filler cap
2) As above on the dip stick
3) White smoke from the exhaust
4) erratic operating temperature / overheating
5) Rough running

My car shows absolutely NONE of these symptoms
Someone I spoke to reckons, that much water being dumped into the cylinder head would almost certainly produce the first three of the above.

Also, my oil level has not dropped even a fraction.

Could it be something else going on, and if so what ?

I'm thinking it may not be wise to jump to conclusions and would appreciate any suggestions to explore before I fork out £500 to have a new head gasket fitted,

Thanks.
Oh and no Rover jokes please.
Heard em all before

Dai wiskers · Post by **Dai wiskers** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:57 am

Well i do a bit in my mates garage (just to keep my hand in ) a half way decent garage will do a compression test and plug it in to the diagnostic computer before doing any work on it

Are you sure it's not leaking from the water pump

You say you have gunk in the header tank this points to the head gasket the other symptoms will take longer to show especially if you don't use the car for short journeys the water will get burnt off before turning to emulsion

If the car is used for short journeys emulsion can show when there's nothing wrong

Can you ask locally about a good garage to take it to?

McBoxer · Post by **McBoxer** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:26 am

It sounds to me that is more than likely the start of a head gasket problem. The symptoms will vary depending on where the leak is, and how bad it is, so it's unlikely you will get all the symptons at once until it gets REALLY bad - and at that point the car would probably be undriveable.
There are testers available that you can connect to your expansion tank and will check for combustion gases in the coolant circuit, which will tell you if you have a leak on that side. You can pick these up from e-bay or most garages should have one. The test only takes a few minutes.

I only have limited experience of the K series engine (I used to be a dealership technician for VW & Audi), so I can't give you a blow by blow account of how to R&I the head, but I think I did one back in the early 90's and I don't think it was too difficult - but please check with a more reliable source before embarking on any DIY repairs - my rose tinted spectacles are known to be extremely effective!

I think the issue with these engines is not the head gasket itself, but the "unconventional" design of the engine. From memory, instead of having separate bolts (or studs and nuts) to hold the head to the block, and another set of fixings holding the bottom end to the block, the K series had a set of very long bolts that go right through the engine and clamp everything together. I'm sure there will be an engineering type who will come along and explain why this is a great idea in theory, but in practice it seems to have fallen short. Especially in the Freelander, where the extra weight seems to compound the problem (DON'T buy a petrol one!).

Sorry, went off on a tangent there! In summary, sounds like the gasket, get it checked sooner rather than later to minimise possible damage to the cyl head or block. If you are getting it replaced make sure you have the head checked for straightness, and skimmed if required.

conkerman · Post by **conkerman** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:29 am

K series coolant stuff.

If the car is not used on long journeys, mayo on the dipstic/oil filler can be caused by condensation from blowby gas.

If the mayo is in the coolant tank, probably HGF.

Check for signs of coolant leaking on the inlet manifold.

Plastic manifold can warp, Coolant leaks HG fails.

There is an upgraded gasket and anothet parts kit available which essentially stiffen the block. Probably not worth it for a 13 yr old car.

Does the Cooling system run under excessive pressure? Does the coolant 'bubble up' when you take the cap off when hot? (EXTREME CAUTION!)

Bikerhoss · Post by **Bikerhoss** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:11 am

HG, Water Pump both possible, so is emulsification from short journeys and lack of use 'cause it 'aint getting hot enough.

From another K series engine owner (exploding Freelander

) check your heater matix too (under your mats etc), that could be where your coolant is going

good luck!

conkerman · Post by **conkerman** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:44 am

The K series only holds a very small amount of coolant (for fast warm up and emissions performance), from memory it is about 2.5 litres or something silly like that. The gasket fails on the elastomer bead that mates the gasket to the head/block.

oyster · Post by **oyster** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:32 pm

You might want to check for a rad leak. Lower outer corners are typical. Look for coolant staining or even wet bits.

nab 301 · Post by **nab 301** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:09 pm

On a few occasions over the years I've managed to locate external coolant leaks by pressurising the cooling system . Most decent garages would have the necessary kit , but it's easy to do a diy version also.

bikesnbones · Post by **bikesnbones** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:02 pm

Many thanks for all the informed replies.
I really appreciate that.
I guess I was clutching at straws in the hope that something other than HGF was going on, but alas, three hours in a local garage this morning has confirmed my worst fears.
In fact what McBoxer said was pretty much the same as what they did, word for word.
According to them, I have very early signs, and the car might be fine for a month, even a year.
They said the last Rover they diagnosed, had identical symptoms to mine, and went on for another 15,000 miles before it eventually came in with fully blown HGF.
Thanks again folks,
Some really knowledgable folk on this forum
Very impressive.

Al · Post by Al » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:47 pm

There is a product on the market especially made for the K engine, cannot remember name( I was an MGf owner) if you google mgf head gasket failure an add for this stuff usually appears somewhere on the results. Its not cheap £30 ish if I recall but if the problem is in its early stages it can work quite well and last a long time and cheaper than a garage visit.

Al.

conkerman · Post by **conkerman** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:12 pm

K seal.

Not a fan myself.

Run till it breaks and buy a diesel 45. The engines are made of cockroaches.

bikesnbones · Post by **bikesnbones** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:39 pm

conkerman wrote:buy a diesel 45. The engines are made of cockroaches.

They're a BMW 3 series engine in those.
That's what I wish I'd got.
People take the p*** out of Rovers, but they're really good solid cars in every other respect.

Al wrote:There is a product on the market especially made for the K engine, cannot remember name( I was an MGf owner) if you google mgf head gasket failure an add for this stuff usually appears somewhere on the results. Its not cheap £30 ish if I recall but if the problem is in its early stages it can work quite well and last a long time and cheaper than a garage visit.

Al.

There are a variety of sealing products available, and K seal seems to be the most highly recommended.
I may give that a go.

conkerman · Post by **conkerman** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:11 pm

It's the 75that has the BMW motor in it, the 45 has the L series motor. Not high tech but very, very tough.

bikesnbones · Post by **bikesnbones** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:38 am

conkerman wrote:It's the 75that has the BMW motor in it, the 45 has the L series motor. Not high tech but very, very tough.

You are correct.
Those BMW engine equipped Rover 75's are good for 50+mpg.

bikesnbones · Post by **bikesnbones** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:40 am

I took my car to another garage yesterday owned by the father in law of a work colleague of mine.
He did a test that involved attaching a tube filled with blue liquid to the expansion tank and idling the engine for 10 minutes.
If the liquid turns brown, it means head gasket failure but if it stays blue, it's fine.
Mine stayed blue.
I didn't see what the other garage did but he reckoned it would have been the same test.
So now I'm very confused.