Experience

[fontana]

Do you think that experience makes you a better driver / rider by default.

[milleplod]

No. I know people with years of experience who are shite.

Pete

[fontana]

No. I know people with years of experience who are shite.

Pete

Yeah me too, but you can't make judgements in the context of a few people you know.
I'm asking the question in a much broader sense.

[boxerscott]

Do you think that experience makes you a better driver / rider by default.

Definitely NOT.

Anyone who is tired can fall asleep at the wheel.

[milleplod]

No. I know people with years of experience who are shite.

Pete

Yeah me too, but you can't make judgements in the context of a few people you know.
I'm asking the question in a much broader sense.

OK....most of the collisions and incidents I dealt with (did I mention I was a police officer for 30 years....?) were the fault of experienced drivers. Most of the bollockings I handed out, for poor driving, were handed out to 'experienced' drivers. In my experience gained whilst policing the roads (broad enough?), 'experienced' drivers were worse drivers than inexperienced ones.

Pete

[SP250]

Presumably Pete, because the inexperienced ones were paying more attention to what they were doing as they were a bit uncomfortable or feeling a bit intimidated and so had to concentrate more.
The experienced drivers drove more on "autopilot" and made errors.

[milleplod]

Presumably Pete, because the inexperienced ones were paying more attention to what they were doing as they were a bit uncomfortable or feeling a bit intimidated and so had to concentrate more.
The experienced drivers drove more on "autopilot" and made errors.

Spot on for a lot of them.

'Familiarity breeds contempt' was hammered into us on the 2 advanced courses I did (car and bike) - that applies to the vehicle you're using and the roads you're on. 'Assumptions kill' was another, slightly more pointed one!

Pete

[fontana]

OK....most of the collisions and incidents I dealt with (did I mention I was a police officer for 30 years....?) were the fault of experienced drivers. Most of the bollockings I handed out, for poor driving, were handed out to 'experienced' drivers. In my experience gained whilst policing the roads (broad enough?), 'experienced' drivers were worse drivers than inexperienced ones.

Pete

Interesting
Research suggests that young drivers (17-24 years old) are at a much higher risk of crashing than older drivers.
Drivers aged 17-19 only make up 1.5% of UK licence holders but are involved in 9% of fatal and serious crashes where they are the driver.
Of course statistics cant always tell the whole story, so perhaps we should ask insurers.
Their business is utterly dependent in accurately assessing risk.
So if experienced drivers are such a liability, Why do they (we), get their insurance so much cheaper than younger less experienced one's.
Why does the cost of insurance generally drop the longer you've been driving ?

[stevesilver]

Generally speaking the standard of driving in this country is terrible, as a white van man I get so fed up with drivers blatantly using mobiles whilst driving, speeding in busy narrow streets, I could go on.

My take on your question Fontana is, experience will make you a better driver, but if your a shit driver to start with you will always be a shit driver. Some people just cannot take in enough information from their surroundings, what I mean by that is no anticipation of what is going to happen.
Will that person in front who seems a bit hesitant suddenly do something silly as they are not sure where they are going. Will that car pull out, is the road icy, only experience can bring that to you, but only if you take it all in.
Some people get in a car and drive A to B, if you asked them about that blue car that looked like it was going to pull out on you, they'd say what blue car? Some many distractions in vehicles now and general lack of focus on what they are doing.

Personally I think the biggest problem is the fact that people think accidents are what happen to OTHER people, not you.

Best car/van drivers are bikers, no doubt of that in my opinion simply because we have to be alert to survive. I have that with me whether I'm in the car, van or the bike.
Although I have seen some really clueless bike riders, fortunately they must have known that as they don't have a bike anymore.

[Grip Fast]

Research suggests that young drivers (17-24 years old) are at a much higher risk of crashing than older drivers.
Drivers aged 17-19 only make up 1.5% of UK licence holders but are involved in 9% of fatal and serious crashes where they are the driver.
Of course statistics cant always tell the whole story, so perhaps we should ask insurers.
Their business is utterly dependent in accurately assessing risk.
So if experienced drivers are such a liability, Why do they (we), get their insurance so much cheaper than younger less experienced one's.
Why does the cost of insurance generally drop the longer you've been driving ?

I wonder if the factors there are:
Young drivers have little experience and a high proportion of accidents, and consider themselves to be immortal. That's all the insurers have to go on, so hit them all with high premiums.
Drivers who learn from experience, have fewer accidents and individually have a history of no accidents. The longer they go without an accident, the better the history for the insurer to go on and the lower the premium can be.
Drivers who don't learn from experience and continue to have accidents, lose their no-claims bonus and thus pay full whack premiums.
People who come to driving later (my mother was 50 when she learned to drive) have realised that they are mortal beings, and are naturally more cautious. They are hit by higher premiums, due to lack of experience and proven history, but with a little bit of allowance for being more cautious.

In general aviation (not commercial aviation - I don't know about that), there are statistics that show inexperienced pilots tend to have more mishaps (thankfully, mostly minor bumps and prangs). As experience is gained, the accident rate goes way down, but then starts to rise again with very experienced pilots (thousands of hours airtime). It seems they might start to cut corners, take more risks, leave decisions too late etc.

No idea if that applies to driving/biking, but I wonder...

[fontana]

So what about my question in regard to insurers.
Let's face it, they more than anyone know the real facts, and their business fails or succeeds based on the accurate assessment of risk.
Why do more experienced riders / drivers generally pay less in premiums.

[Humbug]

Maybe the accidents that less experienced drivers have are more serious and therefore come at a higher cost to the insurer. I assume a lot of the accidents involving younger drivers involve inappropriate speed and cause major damage or serious injury to other parties. That being said, my daughter was back seat passenger in a car that ploughed into the back of a stationary lorry on a slip road killing her friend in the passenger seat. That was due to a low sun although I am sure that four teenage girls in a car were not all paying full attention as I have seen the way they act when ferrying them around now and again.

[fontana]

Maybe the accidents that less experienced drivers have are more serious and therefore come at a higher cost to the insurer.

Well it's an interesting theory but I'd like to see the evidence to substantiate that.
Personally I think experience does make us all better.
I'm a much better and safer rider than I was in my youth, and I expect most here would say the same.
Just as in any activity or job, the longer you've been doing it, the better at it you become.
I only asked the question because I overheard a couple of young lads in my local bike dealers the other day suggesting that everyone over 50 should have to re test because most of us can't handle performance bikes.

[Humbug]

As you so rightly say, the insurers have all the facts at their disposal. They run a business and know where their maximum outlay is. Must be younger inexperienced drivers I suppose.

[stevesilver]

I only asked the question because I overheard a couple of young lads in my local bike dealers the other day suggesting that everyone over 50 should have to re test because most of us can't handle performance bikes.

Cheeky little gits