Jack

[Corvus]

My understanding is the Paralever works as it creates a parallelogram that transfers the force to forward not upward motion and that as the Honda set up is offset it creates the same sort of parallelogram within it's designed "shape" ..... sort of like a boxed in paralever would.

Cheers for reply.

Tanneman drew a parallelogram for the Honda on one of his photos. The problem is that it doesn't make structural sense like the bmw system does. The parallelogram on the bmw is a four bar linkage. Fully structural and holds itself together as a system with the cardan shaft assembly removed. Tanneman's parallelogram (which seems to be what you're proposing yourself) has the cardan shaft as part of the lower linkages. This is very wrong in my eyes. I don't believe that the cardan shaft will be used in this way. You can't be suggesting that the cardan shaft is really carrying any weight?

[slparry]

My understanding is the Paralever works as it creates a parallelogram that transfers the force to forward not upward motion and that as the Honda set up is offset it creates the same sort of parallelogram within it's designed "shape" ..... sort of like a boxed in paralever would.

Cheers for reply.

Tanneman drew a parallelogram for the Honda on one of his photos. The problem is that it doesn't make structural sense like the bmw system does. The parallelogram on the bmw is a four bar linkage. Fully structural and holds itself together as a system with the cardan shaft assembly removed. Tanneman's parallelogram (which seems to be what you're proposing yourself) has the cardan shaft as part of the lower linkages. This is very wrong in my eyes. I don't believe that the cardan shaft will be used in this way. You can't be suggesting that the cardan shaft is really carrying any weight?

I think that's why Honda's engineers designed such a unique shaft as it's performing dual functionality

[Corvus]

My understanding is the Paralever works as it creates a parallelogram that transfers the force to forward not upward motion and that as the Honda set up is offset it creates the same sort of parallelogram within it's designed "shape" ..... sort of like a boxed in paralever would.

Cheers for reply.

Tanneman drew a parallelogram for the Honda on one of his photos. The problem is that it doesn't make structural sense like the bmw system does. The parallelogram on the bmw is a four bar linkage. Fully structural and holds itself together as a system with the cardan shaft assembly removed. Tanneman's parallelogram (which seems to be what you're proposing yourself) has the cardan shaft as part of the lower linkages. This is very wrong in my eyes. I don't believe that the cardan shaft will be used in this way. You can't be suggesting that the cardan shaft is really carrying any weight?

I think that's why Honda's engineers designed such a unique shaft as it's performing dual functionality

I looked into their illustrations when the machine was released because the inference was along those lines. I couldn't see how the cardan shaft would apply the necessary force.

Can you see how? If so, please elucidate.

[slparry]

it's because of the parallelogram created by the offset and the shaft able to alter its length

[Corvus]

it's because of the parallelogram created by the offset and the shaft able to alter its length

I don't really understand what you mean.

But, anyway, isn't it pretty normal for propshafts to have length compensation? Plus, if it can alter its length then it must slide? If it can slide then it can't exert axial force? If it can't exert axial force then the force it exerts is lateral? It is full of soft rubber, I believe, and spinning, so how does it do that?

[slparry]

Many years ago, while riding around Lake Vyrnwy on mountain bikes with my daughter I noticed she had her 18 speed bike in 1st gear and was peddling furiously as a result.

I told her to go to a higher gear, which she refused to do because she said it was harder to peddle. I tried to explain she'd have to peddle less and travel further but failed miserably to explain it properly. This is the same I know what I have in my head as "why" it works but I cannot verbalise it

[Corvus]

Many years ago, while riding around Lake Vyrnwy on mountain bikes with my daughter I noticed she had her 18 speed bike in 1st gear and was peddling furiously as a result.

I told her to go to a higher gear, which she refused to do because she said it was harder to peddle. I tried to explain she'd have to peddle less and travel further but failed miserably to explain it properly. This is the same I know what I have in my head as "why" it works but I cannot verbalise it

Shame. If it helps, I have all the time in the world.

Ok then, how about a link or two? Where did you read about what is going on? Every explanation I found just smacked of smoke and mirrors. If there was some radical idea I would have thought Honda would have fallen over themselves in telling us? They usually do!

Cheers.

[Corvus]

Found this, which is an excerpt from Honda's "media pack" at the time of launch.

"The VFR1200F features a revolutionary shaft drive system that delivers all the characteristics of a chain drive in terms of its dynamic performance without the time-wasting maintenance issues associated with chain final drive. This highly developed shaft drive system features an offset pivot point that eliminates ‘rise’ and a sliding constant velocity joint that takes up any variations in length during the rear wheel’s arc of travel. At the output shaft a clutch damper absorbs any backlash. The results are astounding; regardless of how aggressive the rider is with the throttle, this shaft drive system always behaves like a conventional chain drive. "

There's the anti rise claim, but no explanation except that the offset pivot point eliminates rise. The length compensation is within the cv joint. But, unless the cv joint grooves are helical (!), this suggests that in no way can any axial force be imparted upon the cardan shaft. Even if there was any axial load it would have to be supported by the UJ at the other end, via all the rubber. Nah! Can't see that at all.

Come on guys, it's smoke and mirrors!

[tanneman]

Give it a fucking rest, if you don't get it just let it be, because the people who have designed it are not numpties. Go be troll somewhere else or better still go to a Honda dealer and ride one.

See what the fuck you made me do. I have never uttered a swear word on this forum. And don't pm me with bullshit.

Sorry Gromit.

[Blackal]

Give it a fucking rest, if you don't get it just let it be, because the people who have designed it are not numpties. Go be troll somewhere else or better still go to a Honda dealer and ride one.

See what the fuck you made me do. I have never uttered a swear word on this forum. And don't pm me with bullshit.

Sorry Gromit.

Al

[Corvus]

Give it a fucking rest, if you don't get it just let it be, because the people who have designed it are not numpties. Go be troll somewhere else or better still go to a Honda dealer and ride one.

See what the fuck you made me do. I have never uttered a swear word on this forum. And don't pm me with bullshit.

Sorry Gromit.

Let's get two things straight between us. I'm not a troll. I don't use pm's to hassle people. Everything/anything I say is right here up front. So if anyone has anything to say to me, good or bad I appreciate the same. Say what you like. I'll listen and act accordingly.

You're upset. I upset you. I apologise for that. I Won't post any more on this thread. Let's shake hands and get on with it.

End of.