fast action throttle

[Fw190]

I've been looking for a fast action throttle for the 12 for a while, a German friend found these guys, I've just ordered one, so we'll see how it fits etc. paypal or bank transfer I'm afraid..

http://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?cat ... t=KHG-B1-0

cheers

Ty

[Dog Tyred]

Errr... the kit in the link you posted was for K and F bikes, not R (assuming that's what you have)?

Oops! just noticed they do a kit for the r12 as well http://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?lan ... ist=KAT177

DT

[Fw190]

Errr... the kit in the link you posted was for K and F bikes, not R (assuming that's what you have)?

Oops! just noticed they do a kit for the r12 as well http://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?lan ... ist=KAT177

DT

1 KHG-B1-0 Schwabenmax quick action Throttle

Typ R1200s
Year 2008

indeed, I think I may have ordered the right one

[f90x]

Errr... the kit in the link you posted was for K and F bikes, not R (assuming that's what you have)?

Oops! just noticed they do a kit for the r12 as well http://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?lan ... ist=KAT177

DT

1 KHG-B1-0 Schwabenmax quick action Throttle

Typ R1200s
Year 2008

indeed, I think I may have ordered the right one

It's the one I have. It does make a small difference. I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

[Dog Tyred]

I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

Are you sure about Steve? How does increasing the circumference affect the amount of rotation required?

DT

[slparry]

I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

Are you sure about Steve? How does increasing the circumference affect the amount of rotation required?

DT

I'd agree with Steve too Greg, I'm not sure of the maths or the science but on the my GS and GT that have grip puppies on the throttle opens "better"

Probably something to do with Pi .... and other such stuff I wasn't concentrating on at school, mainly 'cos I was sitting next to Laura Ferguson ... who was a stunningly attractive American 16 year old

[f90x]

I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

Are you sure about Steve? How does increasing the circumference affect the amount of rotation required?

DT

Yep. Think about your bicycle front chain-rings on your 10 speed. Less rotation needed to move the chosen rear cog the same amount on the outside chain-ring than with the smaller 'inside' chain-ring. I definitely get to the power quicker than without them. It was instantly noticeable. My 'normal' getaway from a junction/lights is noticeably quicker for the same amount of 'wrist twist' that I've always used and at 70 on the motorway I'm into the torque almost instantly. Don't forget I have the quick throttle kit but I've had that for three years now and on it's own only made a small difference. I wish I'd found out earlier. I have very nearly sold it on a couple of occasions now purely because of it's stupid throttle action and now it's almost as it should be. I might still do the 'throttle body' mod in the future now that Gus has put up such a great explanation and photo's but it's made me reconsider selling it at least.

[Blackal]

It's only effective if the cable is on the larger corcumference........

The grips are subject to angular displacement by your hand - that doesn't alter with diameter

Al

[Corvus]

It's only effective if the cable is on the larger corcumference........

The grips are subject to angular displacement by your hand - that doesn't alter with diameter

Al

This cropped up a few threads ago and my first reaction was as yours above. But then I stopped to think maybe the action involved in moving a twist grip, especially one where more than one handful is needed, is not 100% "angular"?

If the action involved was 100% "tangential", as in the bicycle chain analogy, then, yes, a larger diameter twist grip would make the difference. Obviously the action is not applied 100% "tangentially". But then is it 100% "angular" either? Is suspect not.

I have two bikes converted to about 90degrees from zero to wot. I can just about apply full throttle with only wrist action and even then, in reality, I apply a little "tangential" movement. I guess most people are pretty much the same. If the throttle is a typical road bike set up then I'm pretty sure a fair bit more "tangential" action is applied via the palm and fingers.

Makes yer think.

[Corvus]

.......
If the action involved was 100% "tangential", as in the bicycle chain analogy, then, yes, a larger diameter twist grip would make the difference.

......

Makes yer think.

I've been thinking!

The larger diameter grip will tend to slow the action down not speed it up. The mechanical advantage will increase but you'll need more circumferential movement to achieve a given angular movement. Ha ha.

[Corvus]

I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

Are you sure about Steve? How does increasing the circumference affect the amount of rotation required?

DT

Yep. Think about your bicycle front chain-rings on your 10 speed. Less rotation needed to move the chosen rear cog the same amount on the outside chain-ring than with the smaller 'inside' chain-ring. I definitely get to the power quicker than without them. It was instantly noticeable. My 'normal' getaway from a junction/lights is noticeably quicker for the same amount of 'wrist twist' that I've always used and at 70 on the motorway I'm into the torque almost instantly. Don't forget I have the quick throttle kit but I've had that for three years now and on it's own only made a small difference. I wish I'd found out earlier. I have very nearly sold it on a couple of occasions now purely because of it's stupid throttle action and now it's almost as it should be. I might still do the 'throttle body' mod in the future now that Gus has put up such a great explanation and photo's but it's made me reconsider selling it at least.

See my post above.

With respect, I think your bicycle chain analogy applies to the cable wrapping around the "drum" of the twist grip. For a larger "drum" you get more cable travel for a given angle. Or looked at another way the same cable travel requires less angular movement.

The mechanical advantage gets worse so the throttle feels "heavier". There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[Blackal]

If the action is "grip the throttle and twist" -then it is merely angular displacement, and the diameter of the grip makes no difference.

If you want to combine that action with a bit of "rolling" the grip along your fingers a bit (usually at the top end of the throttle-range) - then you add in a bit of "tangential" action - in this case the larger diameter grip - works against you as far as quickening the throttle action, but as stated above - increases the mechanical advantage.

Al

[f90x]

I have subsequently found that the addition of 'grip puppies' with this mod makes a noticeable difference. The extra circumference of the grips means less turn for the amount of throttle.

Are you sure about Steve? How does increasing the circumference affect the amount of rotation required?

DT

Yep. Think about your bicycle front chain-rings on your 10 speed. Less rotation needed to move the chosen rear cog the same amount on the outside chain-ring than with the smaller 'inside' chain-ring. I definitely get to the power quicker than without them. It was instantly noticeable. My 'normal' getaway from a junction/lights is noticeably quicker for the same amount of 'wrist twist' that I've always used and at 70 on the motorway I'm into the torque almost instantly. Don't forget I have the quick throttle kit but I've had that for three years now and on it's own only made a small difference. I wish I'd found out earlier. I have very nearly sold it on a couple of occasions now purely because of it's stupid throttle action and now it's almost as it should be. I might still do the 'throttle body' mod in the future now that Gus has put up such a great explanation and photo's but it's made me reconsider selling it at least.

See my post above.

With respect, I think your bicycle chain analogy applies to the cable wrapping around the "drum" of the twist grip. For a larger "drum" you get more cable travel for a given angle. Or looked at another way the same cable travel requires less angular movement.

The mechanical advantage gets worse so the throttle feels "heavier". There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Agreed. You've described it better than I did. I wasn't thinking about that. The cable/chain 'around' the twist grip which is what it would have to be with my analogy. And yes, a larger 'drum' would increase the weight of the pull, However within the relatively small area of a twist grip and the extra girth of the grip puppies the extra weight of the movement is unoticeable.

[Corvus]

........

And yes, a larger 'drum' would increase the weight of the pull, However within the relatively small area of a twist grip and the extra girth of the grip puppies the extra weight of the movement is unoticeable.

Mmmm. Now that is interesting. You've just described a free lunch!

There can't be any doubt that an increase in grip diameter will make the throttle feel "easier" to turn. Easier as in effort, not necessarily as in "awkwardness". But along with that increase in mechanical advantage must go an increase in the length of travel. It has to!

Ok, the increase in travel isn't at the cable now, but it definitely is at the circumference of the grip. The angular movement hasn't changed, but the distance moved through space by the wrist joint will increase. So you have, effectively, increased the travel.

The fast action cable mechanism decreases travel and decreases mechanical advantage. A larger diameter grip increases mechanical advantage again, but it must increase travel again.

Can't see any other way of reconciling what you have, with Newton (or was it Galileo?).

End o the day, hey, if it feels good do it!

[Droptarotter]

While all these mathematical theories are interesting to read about.....and I'll admit a bit confusing due to the fact I was never good at advanced mathematics........what I want to know is...........

Which one of you guys are really going to contemplate all this BS when exiting a full knee scraper corner???

About the quicker throttle gizmo....I had one and didn't think it was worth the effort (pardon the pun)......too expensive, mickey mouse and a marginal performance gain. I would only use this device if I was racing.

Cheers