R1200S - Knockout or bloody nose ?!

[BMW-Fahrer]

I disagree the S being a slow seller.After a slow start sales picked up quickly and stayed pretty constistent for 7 years after running the Boxercup series.The slow start was due the smallish tank and less comfort than the supposed to be supersed R1100RS...
For a sportbike a little on the heavy side and maybe 20 hp more on top would have been great,but after Boxercup despite the critique sales took off...
Now with the new S they addressed the hp/weight ratio but created a bunch of new "problems".Trying to get a sportier image fine,the weight and hp improvements through the line would have been fine to me,but the even more smallish tank and lack of luggage/passenger is just plain stupid.The lifestyle snobs will stay with Harley/Ducati,the racer crowd wit the jap-replicas because that is what they see beeing raced on the telly and what is worshipped by all the magazines.That is how I see it.
It is sad to see hw a serious brand like BMW follows the short lived trend b.s. and I hope they get a bloody sales nose to teach em...
Make the new S as usable as the old one with a R1200S/T version and the Boxercup R1200S/HP for the solo crowd.And then if they relly want to get into the every other spring the lastest is yestterdays new "supersports" class,get in the arms race and join the crowd with a really light/high hp no excuse belt driven supersport bike...

[theseadog]

I disagree the S being a slow seller.After a slow start sales picked up quickly

It is sad to see hw a serious brand like BMW follows the short lived trend b.s. and I hope they get a bloody sales nose to teach em...

I don't know numbers, but judging by how many I've seen on the road compared to other models I'd be surprised if it was anything other than a minor seller in the range. Can you give us the figures that you are basing your assertion on Fahrer ? I'd be genuinely interested to know how many were sold.


Well I don't understand why you would want to see that happen, as the end result may be that they vere to the conservative again with future models, which I think we would all agree woulkd be a shame based on how the 11S turned out.


I was at the dealers yesterday and had a chance to look round. I have to say that having seen the ST in the flesh, it's definately been based on the S body shape apart from perhaps the front end. The side fairings and tank sculpting have a definate S origin I'd say, though no-where near as good looking.


Toodle Pip

[winger]

Anyone who keeps an eye on the market will see there's been a change in the last couple of months,before christmas the arse had completely fallen out of the S market,time of year and all the rumours of the new 1200,have a look now at S prices,punters have seen the new 1200 and thought christ!!!!,speaking to Lloyd this afternoon before christmas Woollastons were unloading S's and loosing money their now haveing to buy e'm in,have a look over the last couple weeks at S prices on e-bay!!!.

Strange thing is i still view my S,as someone who's ridden Jap stuff for 30 years,i bought my S in 2000 cuz there wasn't a choice,if the Fazer had been out i'd have bought that,Just as Peter does BM's i've always done Yamaha's.

Still find the combo of my Tiger and S,staves of the bordom factor,although god knows in the last two weeks have come within a hairs breath of by a Triumph ST,but two bikes with the same engine!!! how boreing is that!!,but is it a great bike!!

[sandbar]

..............before christmas the arse had completely fallen out of the S market.........

Historically - that was an annual event, so there is nothing unusual there!!!

With the greatest respect, a lot of this conversation is irrelevant. Remember that all we have seen so far is the first pre-production versions of something that will be available soon - but not yet.

None of us have ridden one, and none of us has seen what BMW may or may not have planned for the future.

We have all raved about the new Guzzi Griso - but we can look at that in captivity and some have ridden it.

What we need to do is remember this thread and then revisit it in about a year. Maybe things will appear to be a bit different then.

sandbar

[Gromit]

Just as Peter does BM's i've always done Yamaha's.

And I've done....er hang on a mo..I've got a list written down somewhere.

[winger]

Blimey selective or what Sandbar ever been a politician???,anyway what you doing getting involved about bikes you don't ride one,what was it Boxerpan said done more miles in the back of your van!!

[sandbar]

.............ever been a politician???

Now you are just being rude.

sandbar

[moon]

After test riding all the other models and seeing the proposed new R12S was looking too narrow focused (especially in light of the new mrs.), I(we ) picked up a leftover 04 model from the dealer.

Something to add to the stable w/ the K75S (has a zillion + miles on her).

[BMW-Fahrer]

Sandbar I totally agree with what you said to wait and see but even if the new S is fun to ride and better in the engine department (I'll take that as given) and as good or better handling as the current S (if the R12ST is an indication I would be not so sure) I'll already know without even testriding the new R1200S that it is useless for me with the even smaller tank,no hardbags and no centrestand.Regardless how impressive the testride might be.
Guys who userwise might consider a GSXR 1000 which is for streetriding over the top with all it's horsepower or 999 guys who are tired of high maintenance bills/reliability issues might consider it.But BMW guys who loved the R11S for what it is worth a real world/real roads sportbike with accessible performance and touring/holiday capabilities will be left out.So I say flop so far as with the R12ST that doesn't look or handle as the old R11S...
I a year I hope they either upgrade the R12S with touring options or upgrade the R12ST with better handling and underseat storage,underseat exhaust and maybe bigger tank because I can't see them fork out money to retool all the moldings fo all that ugly plastic.I guess with an underseat exhaust and single color paint job it would look decent enough to upgrade to the better 1200 engine and bright headlight if wo up riding and the yearly holiday tour should not be out of the question...Let's see what the empty suits are planning but I hope a bloody nose will set them straight not going their own ways and trying to copy the japanese or italian way;a sigle minded unpractical sportbike but with driveshaft and boxer engine.If they would have bought Aprilia and put a BMW sticker instead of the MilleR on it it would have been more honest;RS(V)1000... If BMW riders wanted that kind of bike they would have bought the Mille back in the years of the R11S already...
PS:As for production numbers I don't know for sure either but I have heared that after a slow start the R11S surpassed the production numbers of the successful R1100/1150RS series that was build in excess of 40000 bikes.For coparison the successful R75/5 or R100RS models were in the 35000 bike range.Also the R11S was succesful enough that it sold 7 years with only minor changes.In the sport (touring) segment where every two years is new,3 1/2 lives.
And that the sales collapsed towards the end with the announcement of the new R12S nobody knew it came without hard luggage,really no passenger seat and only 17 litres under that big tank fairing...

[Archie]

a GSXR 1000 which is for streetriding over the top with all it's horsepower

You clearly haven't tried one.

[gus]

a GSXR 1000 which is for streetriding over the top with all it's horsepower

You clearly haven't tried one.

Off course he hasnt !
Its not a BMW.
It doesnt have hard luggage.
Its useless at doing the washing and ironing.
Designed and built by those pesky japenese fellows.
Everybody,s got one but shouldnt have one.
Wasnt designed to be touring capable.
Its crap.
Its not a BMW.
Only idiots buy bikes with that much power for the street.
Its crap at touring.
Its not a BMW.
Its crap at touring.
Only redeaming feature is thats its got a decent tank size.Although thats crap if you cane the bleeder every where.
gus

[BMW-Fahrer]

Come on guys you can wring out a 1000 GSXR for all it is worth on the street or track?What is the point to ride around on half throttle and give a few occasional bursts opening it up?If you can you better apply for a BSB or WSB seat!
120 torquey hp are probably max what 99% of the riding public can use if that at all.Therefor it really doesn't matter if next years GSXR has finally 160,180 or 200 rwhp because the guys who buy those bikes were faster on a 600 at the next track day.But then there is a few guys who can milk a GSXR thou for all it is worth;Reynolds,Burns,Corser to name a few,and of course archie and gus...

[theseadog]

I disagree the S being a slow seller.After a slow start sales picked up quickly

It is sad to see hw a serious brand like BMW follows the short lived trend b.s. and I hope they get a bloody sales nose to teach em...

I don't know numbers, but judging by how many I've seen on the road compared to other models I'd be surprised if it was anything other than a minor seller in the range. Can you give us the figures that you are basing your assertion on Fahrer ?

Toodle Pip

So I guess that'll be no then, will it ? or are you just ignoring the question because it doesn't have a big tank and hard luggage. . . . . .

[BMW-Fahrer]

I can't find the final production numbers either but I remember to see the production numbers in some BMW book which was published in 2002.I think the R1100RS had around 33000 units build when it was supersed by the R1150RS and the R1100S becoming a good seller with the popularity of the Boxercup series was made and sold at constant numbers of 6-7000 units a year.Which would have made the S a succesful BMW model with around 40000 units sold.Not as succesful as the GS and RT but more than a lot of others and one of the longest production spans.First when the S came out it was deemed to heavy and a little short on power for a sportbike and not as comfortable and practical (smaller tank,no luggage rack,no underseat storage) than the RS.But with the Boxercup series people saw that it was real capable as a sportbike powerful enough and also capable of touring and sales took off according to the book.Bike wrote a year ago that the R11S developed the most cultlike following of any motorcycle!I'll bet the new R12S won't reach the sales of the outgoing S as also the R12ST has not matched those or the ones of the then new R11RS which caused quite a stir in it's first year when it was new in 1993/94 to be later outsold by the GS and RT models...But as sandbar said in a year or so we'll know more;but I already know that with the way too small 120 mile tank,no holidaytrip hardbags,no rack for the tent and no seat for the missus that it will suck...
PS:Back to the GSXR;it is much more fun and satisfying to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle with half throttle.And yes I tried a GSXR thou (not the latest) on a trackday.As powerful and fast as it was on the straights the S was way more fun and less stressful to ride and my lap times probably faster,too...For the street 160hp is for sure pointless when on windy backroads you use probably 60-90 hp max watching the tach.For a last on the Autobahn sunday morning 5 a.m. it might be a different story...

[adamski49]

For the street 160hp is for sure pointless when on windy backroads you use probably 60-90 hp max watching the tach.For a last on the Autobahn sunday morning 5 a.m. it might be a different story...

But the 60-90 hp max is probably in the middle of the rev range on a GSX-R thou so you wouldn't have to work anywhere as hard as you would on the S to make swift progress. This isn't even taking into account the razor sharp chassis.

Still I get your point, it can be more fun using the full performance of a bike rather than half or less.

Now if someone would just make a full power sports tourer with a razor sharp chassis then they'd be on to a winner.

Adam