After a weekend of carnage ...

[slparry]

This weekends been a tough one for the emergency services in north Wales with two serious injury incidents and two fatalities, then this is on tv

http://www.itv.com/walesprogrammes/wales-this-week

[fontana]

I think the future is looking bleak for motorcycles.
In an age where motoring is becoming more and more obsessed with safety, environmental friendliness, and reducing casualties, it's hard to see where we fit in.
One interesting thing I picked up at the beginning of that film.
The Police officer criticised the rider for doing over 90mph during an overtake.
The thing is he did slow back down again.
A Copper on the bikesafe stand at the NEC told me that when overtaking, it's important to minimise danger by getting past the slower vehicle as quickly as possible even if that means briefly exceeding the speed limit.
Provided you slow back down to the correct speed, you will not get nicked.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that rider at the beginning did anything wrong.
Maybe a bit proud of the speed limit, but a perfectly safe over take.
I can't see where the threat of un due care factors in.
This officer is just grandstanding for the camera.

--Oh sorry yeah, small number plate. Damn these criminals

[milleplod]

30mph over the NSL....."a bit proud of the speed limit". Really? 'Grandstanding'....really? He's lucky he only got 'criticised'! Put that in front of a bench, and he may well have had a spell on foot. Oh, hang on....the bobby cautioned him for the speed and the potential 'due care', but ticketed him for the stupid number plate - excellent bit of sensible policing there, I'd have said....message sent, message received.

And the bobby on the Bikesafe stand? Good luck to anyone wanting to use that 'advice' as a get-out-of-jail-free card!

Oh, and small plates are fine aren't they, they should be ignored by the police.....till someone needs to see the number, and it can't easily be read.

Pete

[fontana]

30mph over the NSL....."a bit proud of the speed limit". Really? 'Grandstanding'....really? He's lucky he only got 'criticised'! Put that in front of a bench, and he may well have had a spell on foot. Oh, hang on....the bobby cautioned him for the speed and the potential 'due care', but ticketed him for the stupid number plate - excellent bit of sensible policing there, I'd have said....message sent, message received.

You obviously didn't pay much attention to the video.
Yes, the rider went to over 90mph for the overtake, but slowed back down.
The cop can be heard saying that he's at around 70/75.
It looks like an NSL to me.
Have you never travelled at over the speed limit to that extent off duty.

[milleplod]

So he slowed down....so what, he did 90mph in the NSL! A bench would love that, which is the point I was making....good policing, not grandstanding!

And, yes, I have, in answer to your question....but I've never been caught!

Pete

[fontana]

So he slowed down....so what, he did 90mph in the NSL! A bench would love that, which is the point I was making....good policing, not grandstanding!

And, yes, I have, in answer to your question....but I've never been caught!

Pete

So the bike safe cop was lying to me then.
Scenario.
You're in a twisty NSL road, coming up behind a vehicle doing say, 55mph.
You want to get passed obviously.
You see your window, and go for it.
Do you diligently watch your speedo as you're going passed, making sure you don't break the speed limit, and go past at a snails pace on the wrong side of the fricking road

Or do you drop down and accelerate hard, using your bikes power to get past as quickly as possible.
I would suggest that the latter is far safer, even if you do briefly go well over the limit.
Certainly the bike safe cop at the NEC agreed with me, and said that provided I decelerate back down to the correct speed again, he would not nick me.
Some plod do use a bit of common sense.

[slparry]

http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/advice-centre/overtaking/

[Herb]

So he slowed down....so what, he did 90mph in the NSL! A bench would love that, which is the point I was making....good policing, not grandstanding!

And, yes, I have, in answer to your question....but I've never been caught!

Pete

So the bike safe cop was lying to me then.
Scenario.
You're in a twisty NSL road, coming up behind a vehicle doing say, 55mph.
You want to get passed obviously.
You see your window, and go for it.
Do you diligently watch your speedo as you're going passed, making sure you don't break the speed limit, and go past at a snails pace on the wrong side of the fricking road

Or do you drop down and accelerate hard, using your bikes power to get past as quickly as possible.
I would suggest that the latter is far safer, even if you do briefly go well over the limit.
Certainly the bike safe cop at the NEC agreed with me, and said that provided I decelerate back down to the correct speed again, he would not nick me.
Some plod do use a bit of common sense.

Or do you pull in behind and safely follow along within the speed limit and wait for a later overtake opportunity???

FWIW I was advised on Bikesafe to get past quickly and safely. (His exact words were 'I won't be looking at my speedo on overtakes and I don't expect you to be either').

I had discussions about this issue on my recent 'speed awareness' course. I was politely advised that I might want to be quiet and display the right attitude if I wanted to get through the course. Lol.

[slparry]

Highway Code says

Rule 163

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so

As I read that it's that if you have to exceed a speed limit to ensure it's safe then it's an overtake that contravenes the legal to do so bit

[fontana]

Or do you pull in behind and safely follow along within the speed limit and wait for a later overtake opportunity???.

Of course you only overtake when the overtake is on.
That's bleedin obvious.

What I'm asking is when you commence, do you make sure you don't go over the speed limit, or do you drop down and accelerate past.
On a 1200S you go from 55mph to 90 in the blink of an eye.
Are you really telling me that if you were overtaking a vehicle doing 55mph, you wouldn't go over 60mph to get past.
You'd be going at a snails pace on the wrong side of the road.
REALLY

[slparry]

I guess the question is what would I do if there was a traffic car behind me, and to be honest I'd do the overtake at 60 .... if he wasn't there it would be at a bit more

If anything ends up in court the only thing that's important is the Highway code, not any anecdotal evidence from Bikesafe staff or advanced instructors. In the real world we will all stretch things, but if it goes wrong then there's no defence

[fontana]

If anything ends up in court the only thing that's important is the Highway code, not any anecdotal evidence from Bikesafe staff or advanced instructors. In the real world we will all stretch things, but if it goes wrong then there's no defence

That's true, but you will find that good traffic cops will give you a lot of latitude if you're safe, so it won't end up in court.
When I'm overtaking, I want to spend as little time in the opposite lane as possible to minimize danger to myself.
That's just common sense.
When I did my advanced training with Mike Waite, I learned that as far as plod are concerned, 30's 40's and 50's are etched in stone, but there is a lot more flexibility in NSL's provided you are safe.
In 35 years of riding I have never accrued a single point out on the open road, and I've been followed by plenty of plod.

[milleplod]

The exemptions for exceeding a speed limit (obviously) don't extend to drivers having to do it to 'safely' overtake a slower-moving vehicle. Sensible policing, however, allows some discretion, but there's no absolute.

If laddo in the clip had done 90 during his overtake whilst approaching a camera van, he'd have been pinged at 90, bang to rights. There's a stretch of road at one end of the Snake Pass where 100s of bikes, and cars, have been caught doing just that.

I doubt that the bobby was lying to you fontana, perhaps just giving you a best case scenario. Did you ask him if it would be ok to do 90 in a 60 limit to facilitate a safe overtake?!

Pete

[slparry]

problem being you don't know if that trafpol following is likely to give latitude or adhere strictly to the rule book so the only safe thing to do is assume the latter

[slparry]

The exemptions for exceeding a speed limit (obviously) don't extend to drivers having to do it to 'safely' overtake a slower-moving vehicle. Sensible policing, however, allows some discretion, but there's no absolute.

If laddo in the clip had done 90 during his overtake whilst approaching a camera van, he'd have been pinged at 90, bang to rights. There's a stretch of road at one end of the Snake Pass where 100s of bikes, and cars, have been caught doing just that.

I doubt that the bobby was lying to you fontana, perhaps just giving you a best case scenario. Did you ask him if it would be ok to do 90 in a 60 limit to facilitate a safe overtake?!

Pete

Bikesafe bobbies are trying to get riders onside so do tend to be realistic in application, unlike their other trafpol colleagues. In Wales at present because they're trying to be softly softly with Operation Darwin that's why the officer in the video behaved like he did.