After a weekend of carnage ...

Pull up a chair - let's talk Boxerbollox

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Herb
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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby Herb » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:06 pm

fontana wrote:
Herb wrote:Or do you pull in behind and safely follow along within the speed limit and wait for a later overtake opportunity???.


Of course you only overtake when the overtake is on.
That's bleedin obvious.
:shock:
What I'm asking is when you commence, do you make sure you don't go over the speed limit, or do you drop down and accelerate past.
On a 1200S you go from 55mph to 90 in the blink of an eye.
Are you really telling me that if you were overtaking a vehicle doing 55mph, you wouldn't go over 60mph to get past.
You'd be going at a snails pace on the wrong side of the road.
REALLY


You missed my point. You gave 2 options, overtake within the speed limit, or exceed the limit. I was pointing out a 3rd option exists. Don't overtake at all. Just because the overtake is on, you don't have to take it.
********Jim********
---------------------------
2006 'Colgate' R1200s

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:10 pm

milleplod wrote:Did you ask him if it would be ok to do 90 in a 60 limit to facilitate a safe overtake?!

Pete


That's exactly what I asked.
I didn't say 90mph, but I did ask if I went significantly over the speed limit to get passed a vehicle and then slowed back down, would he nick me, and he said no.
There's the rule book, and there's also common sense, he said.
Oh and regarding small number plates, I do accept the law here.
However I once got stopped for one.
I hasten to add it was on the bike when I bought it.
I got a fine but no points.
Even the copper who pulled me over admitted he'd rather be doing something else, but it was the initiative in my area at the time.
Point I was trying to make is that having a small number plate, isn't going to make you a danger to other road users.
I do concede though that some people take it to the extreme.
I saw a Ducati the other day that had a plate about 4" X 2.
Ridiculous

Herb wrote:You missed my point. You gave 2 options, overtake within the speed limit, or exceed the limit. I was pointing out a 3rd option exists. Don't overtake at all. Just because the overtake is on, you don't have to take it.


No you don't.
You can just sit astride your 120bhp sports bike behind that caravan towing car at 55mph along those glorious twisting roads for miles and miles if you want too.
I'd much prefer to be in front of it, but I get that some people just like to dawdle.

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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby Grip Fast » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:27 pm

Good reminder that video, and I thought excellent policing.

Can anyone tell me what the point of illegal, small number plates is? I've never understood that one. To me, it seems daft to draw attention by having one.

If I got pulled for doing 90, even on an overtake, then been let off with a warning, AND been given a a free sidestand puck and a friendly pat on the shoulder, I'd have hugged the copper. :D

The examiner who did my advanced test (a serving police officer) did make the point about not watching his speedo on an overtake (I asked him the question), and that he wanted to see brisk, safe, well judged overtakes. But made it clear that he would not condone speeding. I suspect that if I'd needed to go whanging up to 90 to complete an overtake, it might have been viewed, at minimum, as not a well judged overtake.

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:38 am

There's no point in being holier than thou.
Is there anyone here who has never allowed themselves some flexibility in an NSL even though the highway code say's we must never exceed 60/70 mph.
REALLY
:lol:

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milleplod
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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby milleplod » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:41 pm

Its not down to the individual to 'allow themselves some flexibility' though, is it....that's the exclusive gift of the police! :lol:

Anyway, I didn't see anyone on this thread claiming they'd never exceeded a limit, or being 'holier than thou'. What I did see was someone interpreting one officer's professed way of dealing with an obvious offence taken as being the way that every other officer would deal with it. Er....no, do not pass go...do not collect your £200...etc etc. :lol:

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:08 pm

You know what, I used to have a lot of respect for the Police, based on my own experience of my fair share of run in's with them.
This is why I have a problem believing you.

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milleplod
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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby milleplod » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:06 pm

fontana wrote:You know what, I used to have a lot of respect for the Police, based on my own experience of my fair share of run in's with them.
This is why I have a problem believing you.


Carry on believing what the Bikesafe bobby told you. As long as its him that pulls you for allowing yourself some flexibility, you'll be absolutely fine. :lol:

Come on fontana, I don't tell you stuff to be contrary, far from it, I try to tell you, and anyone else who might be interested, how things actually are, not how we'd all like them to be. For every bobby who dealt with the bloke in the video as he did, there'll be rather a lot more who knocked him for speeding, dangerous driving and the plate. Its naive to think otherwise.

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:17 pm

Last time I got pulled was in 1997.
I was a bit less responsible in those days.
I was on the A2 in Kent, gunning it.
A couple of plods in a car pulled me over.
One stayed in the car on the radio, and the other came out to give me the once over.
He didn't say much.
Spent most of the time looking over the bike.
Finally he said you obviously know the road because you were slowing without brakes for the camera's, but I reckon you were about 90mph for most of the mile I was behind you, and it wouldn't surprise me if you touched the ton more than once.
He was right.
In fact he was being quite conservative in his estimate.
Then he gave me the silent treatment again, and carried on looking over my bike.
No problems there.
It was a brand new ZZR1100.
Eventually I said, could you put me out of my misery and tell me what's going to happen.
He looked back at his mate in the car, who gave a nod, which I assume meant everything had come up clean.
Then he put his hand on my mirror and said, what's going to happen is in future you're going to use these aren't you, off you go.
No patronising lecture.
No false smiles.
No gimmicks
No free gifts.
Just a bit of old fashion shock and awe.

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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby milleplod » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:32 pm

You accepted the way he dealt with you....laddo in Wales accepted the way he was dealt with. You each took something positive from your experience, rather than some points, or worse. All is well in the world! :D

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:13 pm

Deep sigh.
Yet again you miss my point completely.
Yet again IVe allwoed nyself to be baited.
You are good at it I must admit.
:lol:

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milleplod
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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby milleplod » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:23 pm

What exactly is your point then? And I'm most definitely not baiting you, or anybody else! :? Instead of being cryptic, spell it out.....the problem is that, quite often, things don't come across the same when written as they do when spoken.

If you're saying laddo in Wales was patronised by the bobby, and you didn't like it - fine, I get that. Laddo was happy though, which is what matters.

Or have I still missed your point? (said in a conciliatory tone, not an argumentative one! :) )

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:57 pm

milleplod wrote:What exactly is your point then? And I'm most definitely not baiting you, or anybody else! :? Instead of being cryptic, spell it out.....the problem is that, quite often, things don't come across the same when written as they do when spoken.

If you're saying laddo in Wales was patronised by the bobby, and you didn't like it - fine, I get that. Laddo was happy though, which is what matters.

Or have I still missed your point? (said in a conciliatory tone, not an argumentative one! :) )

Pete


Actually you made my point very well in a previous topic.

milleplod wrote:do you ever use lanes on the approach to a roundabout to make progress, perhaps in contravention of guideline road surface arrows? I do, all the time. CPS guidelines for charging in respect of driving without consideration for other road users specifically state 'misuse of any lane to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers' as an example of something that should be followed up.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21917&hilit=speeding

So how would you feel if you got pulled over and lectured for that.
A little hard done by I suspect.
:roll:
Not speeding admittedly, but as you point out, technically it's braking the law.

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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby milleplod » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:33 pm

I think it boils down to the differences in people, in their personalities - and that applies on both sides, the bobby and the motorist.

One person will accept advice that's given with, perhaps, a slightly humorous edge to it, and say the bobby was firm but fair, a decent bloke....the next will call that same bobby a patronising bastard! But they'll have walked away with a caution, not a ticket. Perception and personality at work!

I worked with bobbies who had no sense of humour at all, everything was black and white to them - 36 in a 30? Ticket, end of, bike or car, all the same. 30 over a given limit?....dangerous driving, every time, let CPS pick the bones out of it while the driver/rider sweats it out for a few months wondering if he's looking at a 12 month ban with an extended retest at the end of it. Perception and personality at work again, this time on the part of the bobby. Its how it is, its the real world, and its most definitely not consistent, because the human element is at play, coupled with other elements that might affect how the bobby deals with something in one way today, but differently tomorrow.

Is it fair? Hard to say really. I always felt that I dealt with people fairly - I used to apply the rule that when dealing with the average motorist, I'd treat them as I'd want my mum or dad to be dealt with if they'd been pulled, because for an awful lot of people, their only interaction with the police would be at the roadside in their car or on their bike. But....sometimes, that 'average motorist' would be an obnoxious, foul-mouthed **** who just wouldn't let you be a decent bloke, or at least they made it very difficult - although pointing out to them, mid-rant, that they were only getting a bollocking usually took the wind out of their sails! Perception and personality again.

Your quote from my post was me pointing out that one (some?...I can't remember) forces were inviting members of the public to send in their own footage of driving that they, the motorist, thought should warrant police action. My example, making progress at roundabouts, is, I'd say, on a rather lesser scale than doing +30 over a limit, but yes, I'd probably feel a bit annoyed if I was 'spoken to' about it, especially as its how the police taught me to ride! If I were ever to be prosecuted for it, as per the guidelines, I'd be going not out and defending it at court - if I was pinged at 90 in a 60, I'd be going to court also, but on bended knee! :)

We're singing from the same hymn sheet fontana, but perception and personality sometimes gets in the way! :)

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

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slparry
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Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby slparry » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:43 pm

On emergency bikers I found Martin Ackers to be a horrible old school bobby with zero tolerance for any transgressions. The north Wales trafpol in the clip was fantastic I thought, certainly better than I've had dealings with in the past.

If there's a bollocking then fine, take it, apologise and thank the lucky stars that particular bobby has been lenient because many aren't, and they don't have to be, we pay them to enforce the law not to be part of the diplomatic corp
--
Steve Parry


Current fleet: '14 F800GS, '87 R80RS, '03 R1100S BoxerCup, '15 R1200RT LE Dynamic, '90 K1

fontana

Re: After a weekend of carnage ...

Postby fontana » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:57 am

If I was a copper, I would feel very hypocritical nicking someone for doing something I'd be quite happy to do myself.
I've ridden with a few of them off duty, and I've seen far more extreme than the overtake in question.
If we all believe that speeding is wrong, then perhaps we would also argue that motorcycle speeds should be electronically governed to 80mph.
After all, who needs to go faster
:roll:


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