www.boxertrix.com

Here's one - I made earlier......................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TpixmxYKUo

Al

Blackal wrote:
........It's all very well being simplistic and saying that the big manufacturers have to produce more "basic" bikes, ........

Al

Who said that? Was it said on this thread?

I actually think that they should definitely turn out more "back to basics" stuff. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for the cream at the top end. I just think the cream needn't be always about mega power-mega speed. We daren't use anything approaching the potential of a superbike on the road for fear of getting thrown in clink. But using one at legal speeds just seems so..... So..... Limp! They're awesome machines. And that's the problem.

Seems simple to me. I don't like the fact that there's a camera van around every corner, in fact I hate it, but I'm just stuck with it.

Boxerscott started the thread, what's his thoughts?

I'm not sure that whats Al meant.

I think he was saying that there is a general perception (not from this thread nor aimed at anyone in particular) of whats the point of sports bikes / superbikes on the road?

I kind of touched on it with my comment about diesel Mondeo estates, why do you need to lug a wardrobe at 140 up the motorway? You don't but does having the extra power make the journey more enjoyable?

I used to own a S1000rr before, about 4 years ago. Now, all those on the Welsh weekend will vouch for the fact that I'm not a fast rider but we have a back road route over to Minehead that we use a lot. Don't think I ever took the S1 on that run but when I did it on the R12, kept hitting the rev limiter and asking for more power Scotty. Not crazy speeds at all (a lot slower than the Welsh TT anyway )

Now I agree you can't use all the power, not by a long shot, but you can use all the power up to a point, if that makes sense

I'm not convinced there isn't sufficient "back to basics" stuff. already on the market......... for two reasons:

1) I tend not to spend much time examining the "Bandit 600" market

2) How much variety should the large manufacturers provide in these "back to basics" bikes? By definition - those bikes should be the "Beetle" of the bike world - when you depart from that notion - it becomes a "range".....


How many varieties of Dolmio/Ragu/Lloyd Grossman et all Spaghetti Sauce are available, compared to "Tesco Savers" sauce?

A basic bike............ is a basic bike.

(right - gotta get back to my Asda lager )


Al

Blackal wrote:I'm not convinced there isn't sufficient "back to basics" stuff. already on the market......... for two reasons:

1) I tend not to spend much time examining the "Bandit 600" market

2) How much variety should the large manufacturers provide in these "back to basics" bikes? By definition - those bikes should be the "Beetle" of the bike world - when you depart from that notion - it becomes a "range".....


How many varieties of Dolmio/Ragu/Lloyd Grossman et all Spaghetti Sauce are available, compared to "Tesco Savers" sauce?

A basic bike............ is a basic bike.

(right - gotta get back to my Asda lager )


Al

Whilst I do think it's important to offer low priced bikes (some of us need em!), I don't see "back to basics" necessarily meaning budget. And certainly not mundane.

By "back to basics" I had more in mind focussing in a very pure sense on what characteristics make a great road bike riding experience. Excessive power can often LOWER the quality of the experience. Ridding the machine of unnecessary's (and this can include excessive power) but not necessarily ridding it of high quality. The ducati 900 ss wasn't cheap. But it was uncomplicated. Basic even.

Interesting thread... I guess at the end of the day there's a bike for everyone, somewhere? Tbh I guess I'm a "basic" rider; maybe Luddite. Hence the R100RS (still the finest motorcycle ever made ) and the 1150GS, which is about as complex as I'm prepared to go. And each does the job for me and each gives me grin factor in its own way... I personally wouldn't spend £16k on a bike, but I'm glad people do for all the reasons discussed above. And you can buy some spectacular bikes s/h for pence it seems?

JamesL wrote:Interesting thread... I guess at the end of the day there's a bike for everyone, somewhere? Tbh I guess I'm a "basic" rider; maybe Luddite. Hence the R100RS (still the finest motorcycle ever made ) and the 1150GS, which is about as complex as I'm prepared to go. And each does the job for me and each gives me grin factor in its own way... I personally wouldn't spend £16k on a bike, but I'm glad people do for all the reasons discussed above. And you can buy some spectacular bikes s/h for pence it seems?

Fair comment, I agree the R100rs is a fine bike and one I would want in my collection but sadly the 1150gs is probably the machine that started to put one of the nails in the superbike market coffin and therefore it should be tried, stretched ,hung, drawn and quartered.

boxerscott wrote:... sadly the 1150gs is probably the machine that started to put one of the nails in the superbike market coffin and therefore it should be tried, stretched ,hung, drawn and quartered.

Hmm - I'd never thought of it like that... Nail in the superbike market, or widens the appeal of motorcycling, gets more people in to it who may go on to buy superbikees? Dunno although no doubt the OEM marketing guys have the numbers...

However, how about inverting the question... If you had a £16k hardware budget, what bike(s) would you buy?

As stuff like the new GS become liquid cooled and now chucking out pretty decent power, the sportsbikes must keep their distance in the market.
Allied to Race Suncday, sell Monday mindset with respect to BSB and the like it's sort of inevitable that litre bikes weigh as much of a fart and have getting on for 200BHP.

Most importantly of all, punters want them. The GS has carved out a cracking niche for itself, my old man has a 3 year old GS and my brother a liquid cooled one. They honestly can't get enough, and my brother is a pretty tasty rider, just don't let him know I said it

Personally i'd like a lightweight sporty tourer with 140-150HP with good wind protection and shaft drive. And doesn't look like an elephant with a chopped off trunk (VFR1200, stand up at the back).

Not sure where this is going, or even if it makes sense. But there you go

JamesL wrote:

boxerscott wrote:... sadly the 1150gs is probably the machine that started to put one of the nails in the superbike market coffin and therefore it should be tried, stretched ,hung, drawn and quartered.

Hmm - I'd never thought of it like that... Nail in the superbike market, or widens the appeal of motorcycling, gets more people in to it who may go on to buy superbikees? Dunno although no doubt the OEM marketing guys have the numbers...

However, how about inverting the question... If you had a £16k hardware budget, what bike(s) would you buy?

Bang on the oem guys do have the statistics and that is why the sub 10k litre sports bike days have long gone. and now they can afford to R+D with them and put a premium price on them. The tech from a superbike is now taken for granted to go into the X. Bulk sales are with crossovers, adv etc. Entry level kinds can be had for under 10k and they are more comfortable for the ageing ex sportsbike person.

Two bikes for under £16k easy. KTM RC8r and ducati 999s / 1098s and I would still want change. Then I dare say when I sell them I would hope to get back at least or most of what I paid for them. I do not like to be the person that takes the depreciation HIT. (cos I can not afford to)

I like this design, mind..................




Al

Blackal wrote:I like this design, mind..................




Al

That is nice Al, but I couldn't justify 16k on a Yamahahaha

conkerman wrote:Personally i'd like a lightweight sporty tourer with 140-150HP with good wind protection and shaft drive. And doesn't look like an elephant with a chopped off trunk (VFR1200, stand up at the back).

Hi! Hello! Over here. I'm standing up. True, the big VFR ain't selling too well but I'm lovin' my 2014 DCT version. It's a total 'hoot'. I say, find a dealer with one (DCT) on 'demo' and spend an hour or so on it. You might find you like it.

Nick.

conkerman wrote:
Personally i'd like a lightweight sporty tourer with 140-150HP with good wind protection and shaft drive. And doesn't look like an elephant with a chopped off trunk

You've just described the new R1200RS.............

(maybe the light-weight is a bit of a stretch )


Al

Blackal wrote:

conkerman wrote:
Personally i'd like a lightweight sporty tourer with 140-150HP with good wind protection and shaft drive. And doesn't look like an elephant with a chopped off trunk

You've just described the new R1200RS.............

(maybe the light-weight is a bit of a stretch )


Al

More of a stretch is the R1200RS power output of "only" 123 bhp but it has impressive torque at 125nm @ 6500 rpm.

Steve